Developer bootcamp

[Jessi]

http://www.readwrite...t-a-startup.php

 

 

The

Developer Bootcamp

is designed to help anyone get started coding - and they might even get a job at a startup or tech heavyweight out of it as well.

 

I think it's a good idea, but this crash course lasts 10 weeks and costs a hefty $12k. Why so expensive? Because it's intended to set you up for employment as a developer right away as well and some of the tuition will even be refunded based on the job landed.

 

“Right now it is a huge opportunity and it is going to be for the next decade. That is why I can afford to be so cheap... If 90% of my graduates are getting job, it means that tuition, it is nothing, right? Compare it to college. This is why people go to college, so they can get jobs. Then they leave $150,000 in debt and they don't get a job,” Bishsay said.

 

Fair enough, I guess. When you think about it, $12,000 really isn't that much compared to the student loans a lot of people rack up over several years and still don't have a high chance of getting a job straight out of school.

[SpikeTheLobster]

That's intriguing. I can guarantee I wouldn't do it - spending $12,000 for a 77% chance of feeling like I could apply for an entry-level dev position afterwards just isn't worth it in my book - but I can see why people would, especially with the ridiculous growth of both the video gaming and mobile app markets. And with the amount of interest there is in dev work, of course.

 

I'd be interested to see statistics of how his former students have done since graduation, too. Not just "this many got a job" (which is pretty random and depends a lot on the current economic climate, location and so on) but how many have stayed in the same job, moved up, got promotions and so on. I guess those stats will come with time.

 

Off the top of my head, I find it extremely hard to believe that people walk into $79k jobs after a ten-week course. At least normal people. I think those are the stats for the folks who would have been successful even if they'd taken a four-day course in turkey-plucking for $20, not your average Joe.

 

I was amused by his comparison to reading and writing, as well, though it's rather obviously intended to add a little incentive to people joining his course. Way, way, way off the mark, IMHO - programming is not an essential skill for modern life, nor will it be in the future - but a very good analogy if you don't take it literally.

 

Whatever else, it's always good to see someone doing something original and making it work - and helping loads of folks at the same time!

[KevinN]

Yeah, it kind of feels like a waste of money in my opinion.

[Godric]

I too think this is a waste of money. I could get some good knowledge from the online forums and other books too.

They might not be as fast but they will be similarly effective as well.

[Jessi]

For the sake of argument....

 

Yes, you can learn those things online, but you're also not going to be able to put that on a resume either. And you're certainly not going to have someone who has a vested interest in you to get a job straight out of the crash course.

[psufootball]

For the sake of argument....

 

Yes, you can learn those things online, but you're also not going to be able to put that on a resume either. And you're certainly not going to have someone who has a vested interest in you to get a job straight out of the crash course.

 

I disagree, it's easily possible to obtain your knowledge for a particular programming language online and then get certified online and take the test. And that costs a whole lot less than this kind of money.

[SpikeTheLobster]

I disagree, it's easily possible to obtain your knowledge for a particular programming language online and then get certified online and take the test. And that costs a whole lot less than this kind of money.

 

True... but learning something in an online course and learning in a practical, tutored environment are VERY different things. Practical application of knowledge is far more valuable than a certificate that says you know some academic stuff (believe me, I know - I've never been asked for my degree certificate but I've frequently been asked to prove my ability, experience and knowledge).

 

As an employer, I'd want a track record or practical experience - which the bootcamp gives. Whether that experience is worth the price is another question but I can see why people would do it, especially given the very short timeline.

[Thomas]

Price aside if there were more projects like this then I would love to get involved. The idea of doing crash courses to me is just amazing. It doesn't leave you weeks later wondering why you started because by that time you will already have finished.

 

However I don't agree with it being so up itself. Ruby and the Rails does indeed sound amazing however I'd rather learn the HTML, CSS, PHP and SQL before getting into ruby as to me they are the building blocks.

[shinastray]

I think that cramming isn't the optimal way to learn anything, specially coding. It's all about experience and all cramming does is to shove stuff down your throat so you're able to solve a problem but you'll end up forgetting that and when faced with a similar problem you'll have trouble since you never learned how to properly structure your workflow.

 

Also, focusing on a single subject is never a good idea. And 12k? Calling it overpriced is an euphemism.

[__Darknite]

As a professional software engineer, I find this alarming, the thought that you can take "10 weeks" course and some how come out ready for real software development is dangerous.

 

Everyone learns at different rates, that's one issue. The second problem is actually that of learning programming, there was a nice article written by Jeff Atwood on this subject matter:

 

separating programming sheep from non programming goats

 

If you want to get into software development, get hold of a mentor, join a community of professional developers (see below), learn online.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Thomas

[merlyn73]

As a professional software engineer, I find this alarming, the thought that you can take "10 weeks" course and some how come out ready for real software development is dangerous.

 

Everyone learns at different rates, that's one issue. The second problem is actually that of learning programming, there was a nice article written by Jeff Atwood on this subject matter:

 

separating programming sheep from non programming goats

 

If you want to get into software development, get hold of a mentor, join a community of professional developers (see below), learn online.

 

I would have to agree. You also have to ask the question: what kind of company is specifically looking for devs who have only had 10 weeks of formal training? Unless it follows the pattern of a REAL boot camp in that you wake up at 4:30 AM and don't stop coding until about 11 PM, I would chalk this up as an overpriced gateway into the world of spamming and tweaking CSS for blogs.

[JimBobIV]

Yeah, sounds like a pretty sketchy idea to me. I've been taking 4-10 hours a week of various programming or other CS courses for four semesters now, and I still don't think I'm nearly ready to enter the field as a skilled or professional developer, so there's no way this can end as well as any enrollee expects it to.

[SpikeTheLobster]

As a professional software engineer, I find this alarming, the thought that you can take "10 weeks" course and some how come out ready for real software development is dangerous.

 

I would have to agree. You also have to ask the question: what kind of company is specifically looking for devs who have only had 10 weeks of formal training? Unless it follows the pattern of a REAL boot camp in that you wake up at 4:30 AM and don't stop coding until about 11 PM, I would chalk this up as an overpriced gateway into the world of spamming and tweaking CSS for blogs.

 

Yeah, sounds like a pretty sketchy idea to me. I've been taking 4-10 hours a week of various programming or other CS courses for four semesters now, and I still don't think I'm nearly ready to enter the field as a skilled or professional developer, so there's no way this can end as well as any enrollee expects it to.

 

In fairness to the course, I think you're missing the focus. His idea isn't to turn you into a proper developer in ten weeks: it's to give people an "in" to the business in 10 weeks. Basically, he's saying "Give me $12k and I'll give you the knowledge you need to get started at the bottom of the ladder, doing what you want to do" - and that's not such a bad thing. I've seen a lot worse on offer (though usually for a lot less cash!)

 

I also think you're being a little unfair on the timeline. 10 weeks is a LONG time in focussed learning. You're comparing it to standard education, which takes 10 weeks to teach you how to switch a computer on - there is no comparison. I've taught people like this and brought them up to expert level in specific applications in 3 days. They won't land an expert job, of course, but they have the knowledge - in 3 days. Multiply that by 16 2/3 (50 days) and that's a lot of knowledge!

 

As an example of comparative learning times, I spent three years on a standard University course for computers and learned a bunch of programming and stuff. This weekend, I taught myself basic PHP (enough to read code and begin writing my own stuff) in about an hour. Just imagine what I could learn in 10 weeks if I were doing nothing else - no secondary courses, no minors, no partying, no flaking off... just learning, learning, learning. There's a HUGE difference between what most people have experienced in standard education and a focussed, well-structured, driven course with a specific goal.

 

Personally, I wouldn't pay for it. Partly because I don't want to be a programmer (professionally) but also because there's no guarantee of employment at the end. If he had ties to companies looking for programmers who would take the top graduates, that'd seal the deal for me.

Edited May 22, 2012 by SpikeTheLobster